Camera PV 2007 » Camera Bag » kicked off delta
kicked off delta
Question:
> Wouldn’t it be a relatively minor matter (at least technically and in terms of > cost) to install on-board security cameras and videos, so that any trouble with > passengers in the air could be resolved through viewing the videos? Of course, > this does raise some pretty substantial privacy, "Big-brother" concerns, but it > might happen…
Heck they can search you from head to toe and have you remove clothing BEFORE you get on. I’d imagine a camera would be no problem. They’re all over the airport. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Tom > Madison, WI > > Of all the stories I’ve heard about substandard airline service, I think > > this one’s got to rank right at the top. One of my readers told me about it > > last week, and I just published it at > > http://www.ticked.com/chriscrossings/2000/crspeechless.htm > I’m not saying it couldn’t have happened, but as soon as I read that it was > a party of six, returning from Disney World, and that she was carrying four > bags herself, a red flag went up: how many other bags was this > Disney-addled herd trying to schlep on board? she doesn’t say, other than > her daughter had one and her nephew had an undefined number. > oh and I really doubt she was all sweet-as-pie about it either.
My bullshit meter was wailing on this one too. But ya never know. [snip]
Response:
> I’m not saying it couldn’t have happened, but as soon as I read that it was > a party of six, returning from Disney World, and that she was carrying four > bags herself, a red flag went up: how many other bags was this > Disney-addled herd trying to schlep on board? she doesn’t say, other than > her daughter had one and her nephew had an undefined number.
Well, when I returned from Orlando with my mother-in-law (80 yrs old), my small child (3), and my wife, I was carrying about five carryon pieces (we were allowed 2 each at the time). My M-I-L and child carried none. And there’s no ‘clampett’ syndrome here – I had my M-I-L’s purse and her medicine bag, which she never checks. I had my child’s backpack (filled with toys so she wouldn’t annoy other pax) and her diaper bag. Finally, I had my camera bag, which I would only check at the point of a gun. So, it’s not unusual for one member of the party to be carrying a lot of luggage, and others carrying nothing. OtherKevin
Response:
>Wouldn’t it be a relatively minor matter (at least technically and in terms of >cost) to install on-board security cameras and videos, so that any trouble with >passengers in the air could be resolved through viewing the videos? Of course, >this does raise some pretty substantial privacy, "Big-brother" concerns, but it >might happen…
You know, I was thinking the same thing while reading the article. I realize that they would only do it if the cost is lower than the benefit, but it is getting to the point that the potential cost of a multi-million dollar lawsuit is getting more and more real. Not only from pissed off customers, but from FA’s who sue due to an unsafe working environment. Not only that, but maybe people would tend to watch their anger more if they know that they are being watched, and that they *will* be prosecuted if things get out of hand. As far as I am concerned, one small carry-on bag. That’s it. And a purse is a bag. I ended up buying a carryon bag a while back that was small enough to stow under the seat in front of me. So far, I have had to do that on 3 flights to/from SFO because people would go on and stuff more clothes in the overhead bin than I have in my whole frigging closet! What it really comes down to is a complete lack of respect for the people around them. Take whatever you can get, and damn anyone that tries to say no. Unfortunately, it ruins things for those who play by the rules.
Response:
> If you do encounter this situation at the baggage check-in desk, my > recommendation is to leave the desk right away and proceed to the > gate.
This is good advice in general in such situations. If things are clearly going nowhere with someone, nothing works better than just walking away and starting again with someone else. I’m amazed at the people who will spend 20 minutes screaming at someone who is being unreasonable when there is an airport full of other people who can help them. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Response:
Wouldn’t it be a relatively minor matter (at least technically and in terms of cost) to install on-board security cameras and videos, so that any trouble with passengers in the air could be resolved through viewing the videos? Of course, this does raise some pretty substantial privacy, "Big-brother" concerns, but it might happen… Tom Madison, WI – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Of all the stories I’ve heard about substandard airline service, I think > this one’s got to rank right at the top. One of my readers told me about it > last week, and I just published it at > http://www.ticked.com/chriscrossings/2000/crspeechless.htm > I’m not saying it couldn’t have happened, but as soon as I read that it was > a party of six, returning from Disney World, and that she was carrying four > bags herself, a red flag went up: how many other bags was this > Disney-addled herd trying to schlep on board? she doesn’t say, other than > her daughter had one and her nephew had an undefined number. > oh and I really doubt she was all sweet-as-pie about it either. these herds > of Clampetts (thanks EWR!) are usually pretty self-righteous about bringing > the entire goddam house with em from what I’ve seen, and that’s plenty. if > that was the situation and I were the FA, I’d toss em off too. if the story > is absolutely true, then that FA has some explaining to do. > — > some days you’re the windshield; other days you’re the bug.
Response:
Thanks for all the comments. Just a few thoughts … first, the Ticked.com article was a letter, not a story. I published it after verifying a few facts with the reader. My understanding is that there was no incident report. Delta hasn’t offered its side of the story yet, and if it does, we will publish it in a follow-up column. The ABCNews.com article, however, was a story and I did solicit comments from all of the airlines in question. Although it was an opinion piece, I was obligated to present both sides – and I think I did so.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Why have you written such a one-sided story? Clearly, there must be an > incident report prepared by Delta. Did you contact the airlines to get > their side of the story? And how did this family fly home the next day on > US Airways? Did they all purchase full fare walkup-priced tickets? I think > a lot more detail is warranted here. Anyone can say anything. There’s > certainly more to this story that is oddly omitted. > Of all the stories I’ve heard about substandard airline service, I think > this one’s got to rank right at the top. One of my readers told me about > it > last week, and I just published it at > http://www.ticked.com/chriscrossings/2000/crspeechless.htm
Response:
>Both articles were excellent. >It seems that the FA’s are having an acute attack of PMS.
Oh yes! And the redcoat. And the other Delta manager. And the airport police. They ALL told this poor, apologetic lady to shut up? And her mom to shut up, too? Please.
Response:
>after being lectured by a FA about my surley manner earlier this year and >finding out about the possibility that I might have been removed from the >flight except for intervention by my wife _I_ don’t doubt the report
Details?
Response:
I believe these stories because I have both seen and been victim of this kind of behavior myself. In my case, a cancelled flight at MDW and a slow computer at the baggage check-in desk was causing me to stand at the counter for longer than a supervisor must have deemed necessary. She came over and asked about my situation to her employee. After a short assessment she announced to me I would be leaving the next morning. I said that I had already arranged by phone that morning for a confirmed seat on that evening’s flight. That generated a "no, I don’t see it" response. At this point I said I would like some FF points, or an upgrade if the morning flight were indeed my only option. At this request she walked away and about 15 seconds later a police officer who I had never seen before was at my side telling me I "must have done something" and (ironically) I would "not be getting on any flight tonight" unless I behaved like a gentleman. My total involvement with the supervisor was about 2 minutes. It was such a bizzare and unexpected event that I think the supervisor simply uses police a routine way to move along "slow" passengers. Essentially, take the flight I say now, or you will be threatened with arrest. I suppose its natural to blame the individual passenger in these circumstances. After all, why would an airline do this to its customers? I think (and hope) that it is not airline policy per se, but individual employees who have discovered this "crying wolf" tactic as effective at reducing their workload stress and collecting sympathy from their union or peers at the same time. If you encounter this kind of behavior from airline personnel, you too will be a "believer." The kind of pain and anguish this behavior causes is real. I fly a great deal. If you fly enough I imagine you stand a fair chance of being a victim of this too. If you do encounter this situation at the baggage check-in desk, my recommendation is to leave the desk right away and proceed to the gate. In my case, I encountered a gate employee who had a working computer, saw my evening flight, routinely printed my boarding pass and even smiled. I ended up having to carry on a small but heavy bag that I otherwise would have preferred to check, so as not to heft it on and off planes at LAS and LAX. This was a National Airlines flight to LAS and another onto LAX. They seem to use Northwest Airlines desks (and staff?) at MDW. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thanks for all the comments. > Just a few thoughts … first, the Ticked.com article was a letter, not a > story. I published it after verifying a few facts with the reader. My > understanding is that there was no incident report. Delta hasn’t offered its > side of the story yet, and if it does, we will publish it in a follow- up > column. > The ABCNews.com article, however, was a story and I did solicit comments > from all of the airlines in question. Although it was an opinion piece, I > was obligated to present both sides – and I think I did so. > Why have you written such a one-sided story? Clearly, there must be an > incident report prepared by Delta. Did you contact the airlines to get > their side of the story? And how did this family fly home the next day on > US Airways? Did they all purchase full fare walkup-priced tickets? I > think > a lot more detail is warranted here. Anyone can say anything. There’s > certainly more to this story that is oddly omitted. > > Of all the stories I’ve heard about substandard airline service, I think > > this one’s got to rank right at the top. One of my readers told me about > it > > last week, and I just published it at > > http://www.ticked.com/chriscrossings/2000/crspeechless.htm
Response:
> You believed this woman’s story? You believed the agent told her to "shut > up?" You believed in her perfect innocence, the rudeness of the flight > attendant and the police? Where is the other side to this story?
I find it hard to believe that not a single other person on the plane spoke up. I’ve seen situations like this before and there were always several people ready to speak to someone’s defense if they were in fact clearly being sbused. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Response:
Why have you written such a one-sided story? Clearly, there must be an incident report prepared by Delta. Did you contact the airlines to get their side of the story? And how did this family fly home the next day on US Airways? Did they all purchase full fare walkup-priced tickets? I think a lot more detail is warranted here. Anyone can say anything. There’s certainly more to this story that is oddly omitted.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Of all the stories I’ve heard about substandard airline service, I think > this one’s got to rank right at the top. One of my readers told me about it > last week, and I just published it at > http://www.ticked.com/chriscrossings/2000/crspeechless.htm
Response:
Yep! Happens every time the Clampett’s fly!!! EWR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > You believed this woman’s story? You believed the agent told her to "shut > up?" You believed in her perfect innocence, the rudeness of the flight > attendant and the police? Where is the other side to this story? > And you wonder why people are skeptical of journalists? > Of all the stories I’ve heard about substandard airline service, I think > this one’s got to rank right at the top. One of my readers told me about > it > last week, and I just published it at > http://www.ticked.com/chriscrossings/2000/crspeechless.htm > I’ve already written about being kicked off flights a while back, while I > was ABCNews.com’s The Crabby Traveler. The story is still online at > http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/travel/Crabby/kickedoff.html > Wondering if anyone else has been removed from a flight for what seemed > like > a small infraction?
Response:
after being lectured by a FA about my surley manner earlier this year and finding out about the possibility that I might have been removed from the flight except for intervention by my wife _I_ don’t doubt the report
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You believed this woman’s story? You believed the agent told her to "shut > up?" You believed in her perfect innocence, the rudeness of the flight > attendant and the police? Where is the other side to this story? > And you wonder why people are skeptical of journalists? > Of all the stories I’ve heard about substandard airline service, I think > this one’s got to rank right at the top. One of my readers told me about > it > last week, and I just published it at > http://www.ticked.com/chriscrossings/2000/crspeechless.htm > I’ve already written about being kicked off flights a while back, while I > was ABCNews.com’s The Crabby Traveler. The story is still online at > http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/travel/Crabby/kickedoff.html > Wondering if anyone else has been removed from a flight for what seemed > like > a small infraction?
Response:
> Both articles were excellent. > It seems that the FA’s are having an acute attack of PMS. What’s next, > an airline inquisition?
You can see(which was pointed out in one of the articles)is that carry- on luggage is what is being argued about. Some FA’s and gate agents won’t enforce anything while others are getting down to the approach mentioned in the article. One solution is to have stricter enforcement of the rules "before" you get on the aircraft. Or take the door’s off the overhead compartments and only allow soft articles in the overhead, with hard articles underneath the seat. (That was the old way the airliner’s were configured.) Plus the airlines have to do a much better job with the luggage. I can see the Air Passenger’s Bill of Rights coming back! Wayne
Response:
I have personally never been put off of a plane (yet!) but I have experienced extreme rude behavior from FA’s on various flights when I felt I did nothing to earn such rudeness. I wonder if some of the so called "air rage" is actually being triggered off by such behavior. Too many FA’s nowadays seem to act like they are on a power trip and lord it over the passengers in my opinion. I would love to believe that story you posted was a farce but I don’t believe it was from what I have seen. The older FA’s especially seem to be "quick on the trigger" so maybe they need to retire while they still have control of their emotions and can handle the stresses of being a flight attendant. Thank goodness for the many FA’s who do know how to treat their passengers with kindness and respect. Mary
Response:
You believed this woman’s story? You believed the agent told her to "shut up?" You believed in her perfect innocence, the rudeness of the flight attendant and the police? Where is the other side to this story? And you wonder why people are skeptical of journalists?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Of all the stories I’ve heard about substandard airline service, I think > this one’s got to rank right at the top. One of my readers told me about it > last week, and I just published it at > http://www.ticked.com/chriscrossings/2000/crspeechless.htm > I’ve already written about being kicked off flights a while back, while I > was ABCNews.com’s The Crabby Traveler. The story is still online at > http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/travel/Crabby/kickedoff.html > Wondering if anyone else has been removed from a flight for what seemed like > a small infraction?
Response:
Both articles were excellent. It seems that the FA’s are having an acute attack of PMS. What’s next, an airline inquisition?
Response:
Of all the stories I’ve heard about substandard airline service, I think this one’s got to rank right at the top. One of my readers told me about it last week, and I just published it at http://www.ticked.com/chriscrossings/2000/crspeechless.htm I’ve already written about being kicked off flights a while back, while I was ABCNews.com’s The Crabby Traveler. The story is still online at http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/travel/Crabby/kickedoff.html Wondering if anyone else has been removed from a flight for what seemed like a small infraction?